Episode 279
How One Speaker Built a $360K Business After An Overdose: His Principle, Money Follows Movement
Most speakers can speak. Almost none of them can sell themselves. Ryan Botner can do both, and he learned the second skill the hard way: twenty years in sales, a million-dollar income before thirty, a near-fatal overdose, and a rebuild from a nine-dollar-an-hour job at a barbecue joint.
In this episode, Ryan Botner breaks down what actually fills a speaking calendar: power hours, cold outreach, walking into businesses unannounced, and the unglamorous truth that money follows movement. He explains why most speakers think they have a leads problem when they actually have a conversion problem, why associations are the highest-leverage entry point in the US market, and why selling from stage isn't a pitch, it's an invitation.
If you've ever told yourself you just need a better website or a bureau relationship to start, this episode will not let you off the hook.
Want to connect with Ryan? Find him on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/ryan-botner-b59445239
Note: Ryan's prospecting examples are largely US-specific, where associations are a far bigger part of the speaking ecosystem than in the UK or Europe. The underlying principle (reps, relationships, and getting on the phone) still applies regardless of geography.
CHAPTERS:
00:00 Leads Versus Conversion
01:22 Ryan’s Rise And Reset
05:50 Finding Your Paid Problem
07:36 Money Follows Movement
11:44 Who To Call First
14:38 Prospecting And LinkedIn
19:00 Breaking Into Corporate
21:36 Reps And Sales Scrimmage
25:27 Listen To The Market
28:09 Low Hanging Booking Wins
30:55 Speak To Sell Offers
33:32 Coaching Fit And Contact
37:13 Wrap Up And Next Episode
4. FAQ Section
Q: What is Ryan Botner's main advice for speakers struggling to get booked?
A: Ryan Botner argues that most speakers don't have a leads problem, they have a conversion problem caused by unclear messaging or under-developed offers, and that consistent prospecting activity (cold calls, LinkedIn outreach, in-person visits) is non-negotiable for building a sustainable speaking business.
Q: What is Ryan Botner's close rate by lead source?
A: Ryan Botner reports an 80% close rate from discovery calls booked through speaking engagements, roughly 50% from referrals, and around 30% from LinkedIn leads.
Q: How did Ryan Botner get into professional speaking?
A: After a career in life insurance sales and a period of addiction that led to a near-fatal overdose, Ryan Botner rebuilt his career starting with unpaid and low-paid speaking engagements before scaling to a six-figure speaking and coaching business.
Q: Does Ryan Botner's advice apply outside the US?
A: Much of his prospecting strategy centres on US-style trade associations, which are less prevalent in the UK and Europe. The core principles of direct outreach and relationship-building still apply, but European speakers will need to adapt the specific tactics.
Visit https://strategic-speaker.scoreapp.com to take the 2-minute Strategic Speaking Business Audit and find out what's blocking you from getting more bookings, re-bookings, referrals and bigger fees. There's a special surprise gift for everyone who completes the quiz.
Want to get coached for free on the show? Fill in the form https://forms.gle/mo4xYkEiCjqtz9yP6, and if we think your challenge could help others, we'll invite you on.
For speaking enquiries or to connect with me, you can email john@presentinfluence.com or find me on LinkedIn
You can find all our clips, episodes and more on the Present Influence YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@PresentInfluence
Thanks for listening. Rating the show 5* on Spotify helps their algo recommend the show, so please take a moment to follow the show and leave a rating.
Transcript
Most speakers think they have a leads problem.
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:They don't.
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:They have a conversion problem, and
they're avoiding the phone because of it.
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:My guest today made over a million
dollars a year in sales before he was
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:30, lost it all to addiction, and rebuilt
a six-figure speaking business from
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:a $9 an hour job at a barbecue joint.
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:He's gonna tell you exactly what
the reps look like and why money
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:follows movement, not content.
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:Welcome to Professional Speaking,
the show for people who are
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:serious about speaking and want
to become known, booked, and paid.
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:My name's John Ball, professional
speaker, speaker business coach,
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:stand-up comedian, and sci-fi nerd.
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:I'm here as your guide on the journey
to a successful speaking business
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:Welcome to Professional
Speaking, Ryan Bottner.
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:Good to have you on the show today
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:Ryan Botner: Yes, great to be here, John.
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:I'm excited
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:John: Me too.
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:Now, one of the reasons I'm particularly
looking forward to speaking with you is
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:because you help with one of the things
that I think most speakers struggle
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:with probably more than anything else.
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:Like most people go, "Oh, speaking
thing can kind of do that.
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:I've got that figured out."
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:But what do you do about actually
getting the bookings and sales
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:to make sure that you're getting
on the stages in the first place?
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:And this is where someone
like you comes in.
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:So tell us a little bit about,
who you are and what you do.
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:Ryan Botner: Yeah.
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:Well, I had been selling for 20 years
and, first started in life insurance.
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:They said, "Bring, 200 names to
training and, we're gonna give you
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:a script, and you're gonna call all
your friends and family, and you're
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:gonna sell them life insurance."
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:And I'm, like, freaking out.
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:So that was my, through to the wolves,
and so I just, I said, "Well, I wanna do
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:this, and I don't wanna go work a normal
hourly job, so I'm gonna figure it out."
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:And, honestly it's, once you got
over the call reluctancy, which was,
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:is always the biggest, you know,
hurdle that people deal with, right?
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:Which is still to this day everybody
dealing with, 'cause, we didn't have
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:text messages much back then, you
know, and email and those types.
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:So, like, you literally were
calling, you're calling people.
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:And so always been just, understood
the phone and the power of the phone.
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:and so made millions of dollars.
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:Before I was 30, I was making
over a million dollars a
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:year selling life insurance.
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:and I really sold life insurance
to rich people, physicians,
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:and thus I became rich.
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:And then the world got ahold of me
pretty good, John, and, fell into
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:first alcohol, and then it was
drugs, and about two and a half years
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:of deep addiction from 35 to 38.
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:Ended in a overdose, and I was in a
coma three days, and, I wasn't looking
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:for God, but He, He got my attention.
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:And, thankfully I turned
from that whole life.
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:That was in 2020 and, my wife at the
time, you know, she ne- she didn't,
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:she didn't really, she didn't leave me.
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:She always knew if Ryan got out of this,
he was gonna be a motivational speaker.
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:John: Okay.
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:So she had that vision for you
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:Ryan Botner: she was
proph- prophetic, yeah.
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:And, uh, and so when I first came, you
know, came back out of my mess, I just
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:really, honestly, I just started losing
myself in the service of others, and
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:I think that's a really important key.
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:And I, I was just coaching a speaker
this morning, and a lot of times
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:we wanna talk about ourselves,
but it's not about us, right?
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:It's, it's about the audience, and if
you can have a servant mindset about
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:serving the audience any way you possibly
can, I believe everything changes.
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:And so I had to just get over my
selfish self, and, I joined the John
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:Maxwell team, and I called myself
a John Maxwell certified speaker.
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:Ask me how many gigs
I got from that, John.
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:John: How many did you
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:get?
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:Ryan Botner: Zero.
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:And I didn't, I wasn't in the
better, but I called myself
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:a speaker and, uh, a coach.
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:and I got a, my, my first job out of
addiction, which was at a barbecue
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:joint for nine bucks an hour.
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:And so, that was my first speaking job.
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:but I had to work, and I was hum- I had
to humble myself, and then, you know,
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:I just, I, I worked with people at
addiction, and I was just trying to serve,
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:trying to find, you know, my, my walk.
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:And then, a professional speaker came
into our small town in North Dakota and he
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:spoke at our, ambulance banquet one year,
and I, he was just talking about attitude
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:and intentionality and time management.
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:And I was like, I'm like,
"You can get paid to do this?"
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:And so I tapped him on the shoulder
and I said, "I wanna do what you do."
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:I s- gave him my John
Maxwell certified card.
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:I was so proud of it, right?
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:And, he said, "Well, call me Monday."
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:And so, that was my first coach that
I hired really out of all of it.
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:And since then I've hired probably four
or five other coaches, spent almost six
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:figures on coaching the last five years.
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:You, you and I, we met through a
coaching, you know, program that we're
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:both a part of and, and work for.
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:And, and so I believe everybody
needs a coach in life.
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:I believe that a good
coach can change your life.
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:And so I was, as I grew my speaking
business and coaching business and I
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:just kept building it, I, you know, I
had a burden, because I was making money.
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:So my first year in speaking, I maybe made
s- in six months, I maybe made like 40
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:grand, and then the next year I did 150.
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:Year after that was 250.
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:Last year we did like 360.
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:And so I don't say that to brag, but
I say it because it's working, right?
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:But I also have seven kids to
feed, so I have to go work.
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:I got, like this
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:John: you,
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:you haven't got a lot of choice.
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:You gotta go out there
and make, make the bacon
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:Ryan Botner: and they eat not only in
the morning, but at noon and at night,
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:and they ex- like, I just fed them.
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:but, so what I'm doing is working,
but it didn't come over, you
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:know, it didn't come overnight.
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:I had to find my voice.
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:I really had to find my skill,
you know, based on my unique
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:past and my unique skill set.
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:I really, you know, I tell people I'm a
specialist in helping people to activate.
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:And, rather than commoditizing
yourself and saying that you're a
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:motivational speaker or inspirational
speaker, I believe that's just the
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:title behind it, but what problem in
the world do you really solve, right?
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:What, what are you, what problem in
the world are you qualified to solve,
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:and is it a problem you wanna solve?
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:Like, I come out of recovery.
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:I could speak till I'm blue in the face
at recovery facilities and make no money.
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:I could, I'm a man of faith.
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:I could speak faith, uh, at
churches and make no money.
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:and so I had to figure out, like, how
can I really take my voice and, and
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:what's the problem in the world that I
solve that would, you know, pay me the
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:most money for it, right, essentially.
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:And so, um, over the last year really
honed in on the sales side of things.
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:I don't, you know, people
kind of shy away from sales.
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:It's not sales, it's serving, you know?
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:Because if you're really serving
people and you're a go giver, you will
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:have financial freedom, you will have
time freedom, and more importantly,
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:you'll have relationship freedom.
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:And so for me, how I track that
is through speaking, right?
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:And so speaking to sell, the
speaking is the tip of the spear.
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:I speak at associations,
that's number one, 'cause they
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:usually have money to pay me.
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:and then getting into corporate.
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:The corporate money obviously is good,
but you know, the challenge with corporate
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:sometimes is, they will pay a lot of
money, uh, or they'll even pay you to
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:come in and consult or, it, but a lot
of people, they don't wanna be coached,
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:they don't wanna be consulted, right?
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:You know, and so I had to go
through that lock as well.
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:And so once again, finding your
voice, but understanding that,
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:write this down anybody who's
listening, money follows movement.
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:You have to move.
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:You have to get uncomfortable.
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:You're gonna have to build relationships
with event planners and decision makers.
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:You're gonna have to make phone calls.
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:You're gonna have to come up with a
plan, because nobody's gonna call you
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:John: Yeah.
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:And th-this is, I think, recurring
message on, on the, on this show, but
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:I think it's one that people can't hear
enough because you need to keep hearing
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:it until you're doing it, frankly.
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:And even then, we sometimes need
to keep reminding ourselves,
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:yeah, this is what it's all about.
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:It's the, it's the business of speaking.
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:As much as we might prefer that
we just, all we have to do is
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:get up on the stage and, and the
rest will take care of itself.
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:It doesn't…
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:It just doesn't work that way.
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:And, um, and, and to be honest, that
it shouldn't work that way either.
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:It's like we, we do
need to build something.
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:We need to operate as a business.
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:And one of the things that we,
you know, connected a bit more
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:deeply over was about how speakers
generally don't treat speaking
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:like a business in the first place.
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:So I love what you're saying
about the, the service mindset.
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:I mean, yes, you will encounter
speakers who are ego-driven more than
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:service, but I think for the most
part, people in the speaking world are
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:more service focused and, and one of
the things I love about the industry.
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:Um, but
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:Ryan Botner: Me too.
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:Me
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:John: it c- it can't just be for free.
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:It has to…
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:As much as you might wanna, you might
wanna speak, as you say, you might
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:wanna speak to Faith, you might wanna
speak to, uh, particularly to, to
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:can't really afford to pay you, you
have to make a business out of it.
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:And so you have to make business
decisions that go with that.
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:It can't all be what you want.
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:So with, with your business, yeah, you've,
you've clearly developed something and
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:I, I think a lot of people would be
probably happy to hear your story as
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:well as I think, all right, you did it.
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:I mean, yeah, you had some
business success early on, but
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:you didn't start like, "Oh, I've
always been an amazing speaker.
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:I've always been up on stage.
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:I knew this is what I wanted
to do forever," or that.
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:It's like, this is like, all
right, this was like a reinvention
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:to some degree for you.
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:Ryan Botner: Yeah.
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:Yeah, and even, you know, my biggest
gig still in, in my career with
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:which really full-time for years,
my biggest gig is, was, is $7,000
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:and I got that last, last month.
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:You know what I mean?
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:And so, um, I, uh, I probably have a
little imposter syndrome that, well,
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:like I can't ever get 10K or 12K, right?
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:But that, that's what I
thought when I first started.
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:Like, I couldn't believe somebody
gave me my first gig I think was 500,
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:and then it was 900, and then 1,200,
and I kinda got stuck at like 3,500
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:for a while, but it was good money.
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:And then I was like, okay, well, but
if I can get a $3,500 gig or a $5,000
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:gig, but I can have an offer that
I can make five, 10, 15 on the back
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:end, and so that is the whole thing.
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:And I'll tell you the truth, I probably
make the most money on free gigs as
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:long as the right people are in the,
in the audience, you know, networking
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:business type of things 'cause they're
gonna be attracted, right, to go deeper.
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:And I believe that most people are not
gonna hear my talk and just like totally
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:transform everything in their life, right?
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:They're not gonna hear this podcast
and like, "Oh, that was it."
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:Totally transform.
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:They need to be in a
coaching program, right?
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:Because I know how to lose weight, John.
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:I know what to do, I know what to
eat, I know how to work out if you
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:put me in a gym, but I need a trainer.
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:I need accountability.
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:I need clarity because when there's
clarity, then I have confidence.
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:And so, like I think a lot of the
biggest battle is people are like,
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:"Well, I don't know who to call."
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:Okay.
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:Well, let's come up with a list
and a script and let's do it.
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:But if they, they're, if you're not
putting those things together and
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:bringing accountability, left to
our own devices we just won't do it.
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:We won't do hard things.
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:John: So I, I think you're right that
that is one of the things, that one
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:of the stumbling blocks for people is,
who do you call in the first place?
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:'Cause I think, you know, funny enough,
I was chatting earlier today with
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:a, with a, a bureau, someone from a
speaker bureau about this very topic
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:that, that speakers will just join a
speaker bureau and think, "Oh, the gigs
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:are gonna come flying through now."
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:Or, um, or, or they'll r- post stuff a
few bits to pieces on LinkedIn, or they'll
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:have, be responding to other people's
posts, the stuff that people tell you
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:to do for engagement on LinkedIn, and
that why isn't my inbox blowing up?
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:Why isn't my phone ringing?
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:And all the…
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:Because that's a super
passive way of doing it.
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:You know, people just don't wanna
get on the phone and make that call.
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:So it's not just that.
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:It's like, well, you have to know who
you're gonna call, and you have to
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:know what you're gonna pitch them.
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:So the first bit of the equation is who.
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:H- How, how do people…
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:How do you recommend people
start figuring that out?
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:Ryan Botner: Yeah.
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:Well, you said a really
key word there, who.
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:there's a book by Dan
Sullivan, and I believe Dr.
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:Ben Hardy wrote this
book, called Who Not How.
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:And so every time I've had a breakthrough
in my life, it has come from a person.
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:So I don't really have a money
problem, we have a people problem.
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:We need to find the people,
the people have the money.
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:And, the good news is, I, I'm…
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:associations and even conference,
they're looking for speakers.
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:They might think there's
a lot of speakers, but
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:they're looking for speakers.
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:They're looking for speakers that
are different as well, and that are
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:assertive and intentional, about
wanting to be on the stage and have
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:high excitement and high energy.
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:I mean, you say motivational speaker, I
believe everybody needs to be motivating.
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:Motivating just means move.
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:Like, if you're not motivating,
nobody wants to listen to you.
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:If you're not moving, you know?
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:And same with inspirational,
it means to breathe life into.
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:But I believe that, we get so caught up
in I gotta have this pers- perfect demo,
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:and this website, and all these things.
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:No, you just need to speak
directly to the problem.
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:So every day you need to wake up and say,
"What problem are people dealing with?
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:And what are they dealing with?"
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:I wake up and ask myself this, I'm like,
they're dealing with anxiety, depression,
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:fear, hopelessness, helplessness.
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:They're stuck, they're complacent.
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:So all of my messaging
speaks to those problems.
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:So then they're like, "Oh, that is…
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:We…
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:Oh, we are, we're dealing with that."
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:You know?
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:'Cause when you see it,
you're like, "That's it.
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:That's what we got going on."
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:John: Yeah.
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:So you, you figure, you, figure, out
that that's who you're serving, that's
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:a really important part of the equation.
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:But then how do you figure out
who you need to speak to in
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:order to serve those people?
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:Ryan Botner: Yeah.
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:I believe you should
always be prospecting.
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:so right before this call, I had a
power hour and I was prospecting.
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:And so I'm figuring out, what
conferences, associations that
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:I align the most w- most with.
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:I'm not only calling them,
getting them on the phone, but
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:I'm adding them to LinkedIn.
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:We have a LinkedIn outreach,
program as well because when they
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:come on LinkedIn, they need to
see I'm a professional speaker.
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:I wanna build that.
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:don't just send emails.
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:They-- Literally, I talk to
event planners all the time.
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:They say they get 50 emails a day.
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:John: I believe it
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:Ryan Botner: So if you're sending email,
but I can give you this, LinkedIn, if
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:you, if you do it and you just promise in
the message when you first connect with
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:them, "Hey, I spoke over here, but I just
wanted to say hello and connect with you.
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:I, I, I promise I won't, slap pitch you."
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:And you just build a relationship, and
then you post good content, right, that is
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:relevant to problems that they're solving.
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:I believe that's a great way to do
it, but you need to get on the phone,
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:and if you just get them on the
phone to build a relationship, then
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:you can do a combination of that.
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:That's how I've built my speaking business
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:John: Yeah.
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:I, I was speaking with, a UK speaker
called Elliot Kay, and, one of the
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:things that Elliot was saying, is like
that a lot of the stuff that people
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:put on LinkedIn, a, a lot of times
speakers don't actually put much or
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:content of their, or pictures or videos
of them actually speaking on platforms.
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:And he said that the, the bookers are
there on the platform, but very often
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:they're not actually seeing you in
action, and it is that proof of concept
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:Ryan Botner: Social proof
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:John: right, social proof, being able
to see, well not just that you can get
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:on a stage perhaps, but also to be able
to see content that shows you know what
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:you're talking about, you actually sound
like you have the stuff that can deliver
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:on what we want to book you in for.
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:That I think I've heard you say
this before as well, that y- you
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:know, the bookers need to be able
to trust that you can deliver
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:Ryan Botner: Absolutely.
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:I mean, you think about it,
it's not their money, right?
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:Okay, so it's not their money.
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:What's the big thing, like,
what's their big risk?
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:Well, can I trust you to deliver
and just really not mess it up?
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:And, and are we, you know,
can I stay within budget?
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:That's really all they care about
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:You know?
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:So if you build a relationship
and they know, like, and trust
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:you, they'll go to bat for you.
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:But I will tell you this, this
is a big tip, and this is where a
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:direction we're going right now.
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:Not only, uh, not only just working
with event planners and decision-makers,
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:but you need to go and befriend
the board members of associations,
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:'cause the board members are the
ones that will give some votes.
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:And a lot of times I lose out with an
event planner decision-maker 'cause
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:the boardroom brought their guy
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:John: Right.
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:It makes sense.
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:I mean, it's a, it is a relationship
business and people want the people
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:that they trust to be able to deliver
the outcomes they're looking for
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:Ryan Botner: And usually those board
members also are presidents or head
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:up of corporations, which is really
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:what you're going for, anyway.
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:We wanna get to the corporate money.
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:and so, but the nice thing about
associations is that it's much easier
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:to speak to, let's just say, a group
of financial advisors that are all
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:dealing with the same thing, or a group
of mortgage brokers that are all new.
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:It's much easier for me to speak and
build out a talk that is they're all
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:dealing with the same problem, rather
than a rotary group, which is, has
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:like every type of occupation in it.
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:Does that make sense?
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:John: It does.
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:I mean, here, here
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:Ryan Botner: don't know the word that I'm
thinking, like specific niche, you know,
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:like a group of similar, 'cause then you
could really hone in on a problem that
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:they're really facing, you could smash it
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:John: Yeah.
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:He- here in the Europe, and
especially in the UK, we don't
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:really have the associations.
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:Like, the US is full of
associations, Europe is not.
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:That's not to say that there aren't
any that exist, but they're not alwa-
362
:you know, they're not al- they're
not quite the same path for people
363
:into professional speaking as they
might be for, for people in the U.S.
364
:I mean, if that isn't a stepping stone
for you, what, what would be your, your
365
:advice if you kind of have to go straight
to the, straight to the corporate?
366
:What, what would you do in that situation?
367
:Ryan Botner: literally what I did in the
corporate world is I, um, I went do- I
368
:went door to door when I first started.
369
:So I would walk into car dealerships, and
I would walk into real estate offices.
370
:I would walk into, corporate and
especially if they had any type of
371
:a sales, department, and I would ask
them when their sales meetings were,
372
:'cause it was usually every week, and
I would come in and speak for free so
373
:that they could taste the ice cream
and I could showcase in the corporate
374
:John: Right
375
:Ryan Botner: and I will tell you, that,
I, A, the boldness to walk in, right?
376
:And then to go speak, I got hired
eight times in two months from that.
377
:Now, the challenge is I ran out of car
dealerships and real estate offices
378
:to call on A lot of times we just, we
just have to be bold and, and allow
379
:them to, see us in action, you know?
380
:And there'll be some type of consulting
coach, some type of opportunity there.
381
:Plus, they all have groups, like the
group that I know, like in the car
382
:dealership world, they, they have
like what … It's like study groups.
383
:They're called like Tony groups,
and they meet every quarter,
384
:and that's an opportunity.
385
:Or you like Vistage groups.
386
:They got … A lot of people
are in those types of group.
387
:So successful people are a part of
these that you can get referred to
388
:John: Yeah.
389
:A- and those can be good doorways in.
390
:And you said about g- walk- doing like
walking into places and I could just hear
391
:the listener now going, "Um, I couldn't…
392
:I don't think I could do that."
393
:But I, I honestly think pe-
people could, it's just that
394
:they pr- would prefer not to.
395
:Like you say with the,
they prefer not to make
396
:Ryan Botner: if I wouldn't have had
a coach that said, "You're doing it."
397
:And I never forget the first one
I did, I'll never forget, and,
398
:uh, it was actually a, uh, mobile,
like, or not a mobile h- RV park.
399
:It was a RV dealership.
400
:And it w- I walked in and I said,
"Do you have weekly meetings?"
401
:He said, "Yeah."
402
:And he actually said, "You know what?
403
:You're, you're, you're
a performance coach.
404
:Would you coach my new guy here?"
405
:And I sat down and, and he said, "I'll
pay you to coach him for an hour."
406
:So I sat down and, and I
coached him for an hour.
407
:They never brought me in to speak
'cause the executive said no, and
408
:they never paid me either, but it
was a good experience, my first one.
409
:You know, it wasn't a
rejection, it was actually…
410
:And I'll never forget that.
411
:So it's always the first one's the hardest
412
:John: Yeah.
413
:But do you, do you think that people do
need to do the work on getting out of
414
:the way or do you just think you just
need the accountability, you need someone
415
:there to tell you just go and do it?
416
:Ryan Botner: Reps,
417
:yeah.
418
:Yeah.
419
:Yeah, because, because, uh,
you know, top performers have
420
:four things in common, John.
421
:Number one, they are remarkably
bold, and people just need a
422
:more, they need more boldness.
423
:Now, I can't be bold, though, if I don't
have clarity and I don't have confidence
424
:and I don't, I don't have a roadmap.
425
:And I, if I trust that the person has been
there before, like that, uh, that gives
426
:me more boldness in what I'm doing, right?
427
:Otherwise, I have confusion, which
is randomness in motion, and then I'm
428
:like, "Oh, I should be doing this.
429
:I should be doing that.
430
:I should be posting on LinkedIn.
431
:I should be posting…"
432
:Like, no.
433
:Like you're throwing pebbles
into the Atlantic Ocean.
434
:Need to have a clear plan of somebody
who's been there before and done
435
:it, you know?
436
:So
437
:John: to reinvent anything
in order to do this.
438
:But, um, I, I, I agree.
439
:And I, I, I…
440
:My, my first ever sales job, I was, I had
that s- that fear of making the calls.
441
:Ryan Botner: Court
442
:John: but no, I was, I was being
trained by, do you know Cole Gordon?
443
:You ever come across him and his team?
444
:Ryan Botner: That sounds familiar
445
:John: Okay.
446
:So I, so I was
447
:being…
448
:But, so we'd bought training
with them and, and so his team
449
:were training, training me and
the other team, team members.
450
:And, and it really was just like the,
the probably the most helpful thing
451
:they covered on that was the only
way to get over the hesitation on
452
:making the calls is to just start.
453
:Just start making the calls.
454
:Because when you're in
it, there's no hesitation.
455
:You're just in it, you get on
with it, and that, that's really
456
:how you have to start your day.
457
:It's like, "Yeah, okay, I might not
want to do this," but you, you take,
458
:take the bitter pill and just get on
with it, because that's the worst of
459
:it out the way, is getting started
460
:Ryan Botner: Yeah.
461
:And I will tell you, and this is something
that we, I, I do in my coaching program,
462
:is we do, uh, like a sales scrimmage.
463
:And so it's an hour.
464
:We break, go into breakout groups,
and it's three people in each room.
465
:And so I'll put three speakers in
a room, three coaches in a room,
466
:whatever it is, and we will get reps.
467
:And so they got three minutes of phoning,
approach, discovery, whatever it is,
468
:because you need to get those reps in.
469
:And you could do it with your ChatGPT.
470
:You could do it, you could go back
and forth with AI and do role play
471
:and if you wanted to, but, but it
just brings more confidence rather
472
:than making the mistake on the call,
on the phone, out on the field, and
473
:then, you know, losing the opportunity.
474
:And so, but, that's always been
something that has been leveled
475
:up my skill set big time, is just
getting … Gotta get to the gym.
476
:I gotta put in the reps
477
:John: Yeah.
478
:And, and it, it…
479
:People think this is complicated,
but I think maybe they want
480
:to think that because it gives
them, gives them an excuse out.
481
:Yeah, like you think, you think, "Oh,
the gym's gonna be too hard work."
482
:Ryan Botner: John, it is
483
:John: yeah.
484
:I agree.
485
:I agree.
486
:Ryan Botner: But you and I saying,
you and I saying it's hard is
487
:not gonna make it any easier
488
:John: Right.
489
:But it's not…
490
:Hard is not the same as impossible.
491
:Hard is not the same as
like, "I can't do it."
492
:It's just like, yeah, it's not
going to be easy, but it is doable.
493
:Like most things that are worth
having, they're not gonna be easy.
494
:If it was easy, it wouldn't
even be worth having.
495
:Ryan Botner: Everybody do it
496
:John: yeah, you have to put
497
:it, you have to put in some effort
and some work into doing that.
498
:I'm completely with you on that.
499
:But there's also an element where
sometimes you just initially
500
:have to get out of your own
way and just start doing it.
501
:And, um, now you, you kind of s- shared
some of your story about doing that.
502
:Do you find it's the same
principle for everyone else?
503
:You're just like, you need to
know why you're getting out of
504
:your own way in order to be able
to, to do that for yourself.
505
:You need that like, you have
to have a big enough reason to
506
:actually push yourself to do that
507
:Ryan Botner: Yeah.
508
:I mean, I have seven little
reasons, that's for sure.
509
:Uh, you know, and I, and like, here's
the challenge, that, you know, don't--
510
:If they don't have-- If-- The people
that are backed against a wall, I,
511
:I feel they, they respond the most,
but not-- A lot of times they don't
512
:have any money to even invest in
themselves, and I've been there too.
513
:and then, you know, it-- I'll have
people that have made a bunch of money,
514
:and then they wanna come in and speak,
but they don't wanna put the work in
515
:to do the, to get the-- Like, they're
not gonna just get the 10K gigs.
516
:They're not even a good…
517
:You know what I mean?
518
:But yet they made their money, and so, uh,
like, you just have to know, like, "Why
519
:am I doing this, and where am I going?"
520
:But you don't have to have it
all figured out right away.
521
:you need to select a problem you solve,
establish yourself as an authority.
522
:You could start writing a book.
523
:Write a little book.
524
:Like, I wrote a really little
book, you know, to start.
525
:And, and then, but then you have to listen
to the market, 'cause the market will tell
526
:you if your message is hitting or not,
if you're really s-speaking to problems.
527
:And usually people are bringing,
they're bringing the, the-
528
:They're bringing the solution, but
they're not speaking to the pain
529
:John: Right.
530
:Yeah.
531
:I, I do, I do sometimes come across, uh,
um, particularly where with the place we,
532
:we both work for, would often very much
come across people wanting to speak about
533
:what they wanted to deliver to people,
but that wasn't really connected with
534
:what people would probably want from them.
535
:Ryan Botner: And I've done it.
536
:I've done it
537
:John: yeah.
538
:It's eas- it's easy trap to fall
into because it's like you think,
539
:"Oh, this is what they need.
540
:This is what, this is what,
this is what I love, and this
541
:is what everyone else needs."
542
:A- and it actually might not be, uh,
unless you can actually connect it in
543
:with, as you say, solving the problem
for the right people and for people who
544
:are gonna be able to pay you for it.
545
:Let me ask you this, though.
546
:In your opinion, what do you think is the
most important skill or trait or habit
547
:for, for a professional paid speaker?
548
:Ryan Botner: you need to be
a good listener and you need
549
:to check your ego at the door
550
:John: I think those look great.
551
:Yeah
552
:Ryan Botner: I, I I have a good-- I
have a speaker friend and he, he said,
553
:"Ryan, you need, you need to be an
554
:askaholic."
555
:You need to really be curious,
and I knew what he meant.
556
:And, be really curious, and, and be
interested in, in, and really just
557
:bringing value and serving, you know?
558
:some low-hanging fruit
tip for, for somebody.
559
:I just wanna try to bring value.
560
:if you have event venues, that put
on events, in your area, just stop
561
:in or call them and get the event
planner on the phone and just let
562
:them know that you're available.
563
:S- 'cause if a speaker backs out,
you wanna let them know that that's
564
:sol- that's bringing a solution
and then not a solicitation.
565
:building a relationship, and
then what will usually happen is
566
:they'll bring you in the next year
because you were solution-based
567
:and you were available to serve.
568
:And even if they didn't, you
know, and so that could be a
569
:low-hanging fruit, for, for somebody.
570
:Honestly, I can't even tell
you how many gigs I've won
571
:because the speaker backed out
572
:John: That's, that's a good point 'cause
I think people do, especially, I, I know
573
:around UK and Europe, people do struggle
to get i- to break into the conference
574
:gigs because they don't, they don't
really always want unknown speakers.
575
:But approaching it from that sense
of like, well, I think in a, in the
576
:situation where they don't have anyone
else and they've got you on backup,
577
:yeah, that's, you're absolutely right.
578
:Okay, they might not
579
:Ryan Botner: the best speaker?
580
:The one that shows up
581
:John: yeah.
582
:100, 100%, 100%.
583
:Ryan Botner: And then the other
thing too is that a lot of times
584
:they'll have breakouts at events,
and you could come in as a breakout.
585
:It might not pay any money or
maybe a little money, but at least
586
:your, get your foot in the door
587
:John: Yeah.
588
:Uh, that's important.
589
:The, the visibility of being seen, being
able to connect with people is important.
590
:I know we don't all-- we don't
ideally want to be just doing
591
:gigs for exposure, but there are
certain situations where that, um…
592
:I think one of my speaker coaches
said this to me, is like, "You
593
:don't ever speak for free."
594
:There, there's, there has to
be some exchange of value.
595
:You need to know you're getting
something worth having from doing this.
596
:Even if it's not money, you're
getting something that's
597
:Ryan Botner: Yeah, even if it's some
598
:John: that experience
599
:Ryan Botner: I call them
purpose tokens, you know?
600
:John: Right.
601
:Yeah.
602
:Yeah.
603
:Uh, I do like that.
604
:I, I, I wanna ask you 'cause, uh, um,
uh, this is probably just a, a more
605
:of a, a quick thing if we, if we can
cover this quickly, I don't know.
606
:But, um, selling from stage is quite a
different thing, and it's not something
607
:we cover too often on, on the show.
608
:But, um, it's a different kind of
speaking to what most people do.
609
:Different, a bit different to keynote,
though most people that I don't know if
610
:I, I don't think I could sell from stage.
611
:There are definitely different
skills involved with that.
612
:And I was sort of thinking, yeah,
I'd like the idea, I'd like to
613
:be able to sell my own courses,
my own programs from the stage.
614
:Uh, but I d- I don't have
the confidence to do it.
615
:I don't know how to do that.
616
:How, what are some of the things that
maybe they should look to work on that
617
:make that effective, make that work?
618
:Ryan Botner: Question you wanna
always ask, is what action do
619
:you want the audience to take?
620
:So that's where I begin.
621
:Say, "Okay, what action do
I want the audience to take,
622
:and who am I looking for?"
623
:Right?
624
:'Cause I wanna be very specific in who
I'm looking for so I can pre-frame and
625
:I can agitate and bother that person
that is gonna go deeper with me.
626
:And so I'm doing that all through my
presentation of really just agitating
627
:because if I'm agitated, now my pain
of staying where I'm at is greater
628
:than the pain of change, and they
will run up and almost tackle me
629
:after if I really hit home and I'm
speaking exactly to the problem.
630
:And I do invite them to come deeper.
631
:You know, so it's not necessarily a pitch
from the stage, but where there's no
632
:invitation, John, there's no monetization.
633
:Okay?
634
:So there's gotta be some type
of an offer to go deeper.
635
:And so when I say speak to sell, that's
really what I mean because if you put
636
:me in a room with somebody for 45 or
50 minutes and they engage with me
637
:in a discovery call, I close at 80%.
638
:If I get a referral, I close at about 50%.
639
:If it's a LinkedIn lead, it's about 30%.
640
:So you can see the difference
and how powerful it is to,
641
:uh, have more speaking gigs.
642
:Much more efficient
643
:John: For sure.
644
:for sure.
645
:Uh, and I think an interesting point
there that maybe isn't, you know, so
646
:explicit but, but it is implicit in
what you say of you track this as well.
647
:Like, you track what's actually bringing
in the results and the percentage.
648
:Like, you, you know what converts
best for you and what doesn't
649
:convert quite so well for you.
650
:and I think most people don't have
much of a clue about that, but the
651
:tracking and the numbers side of
this is, is part of having a business
652
:Ryan Botner: Yeah.
653
:And I'm like, um, I'll have some
opportunities where I'll, I'll pay
654
:or buy tickets to be on the stage,
especially if I know the other
655
:speakers, and I'll be like, "Oh, I'm
gonna get a bunch of money from this,"
656
:because I know my offer and I know the
people in the room that it speaks to.
657
:So I'll even not only not do it for
free, but I'll pay to be on the stage.
658
:now be careful with that.
659
:You don't wanna spend a bunch of money.
660
:But in certain situations, if you have
confidence in that, um, in your ability
661
:to sell, it's profitable for sure
662
:John: It can be worth doing.
663
:there's been, there's been a lot
of value in, in a short time.
664
:You know, it's a very
valuable conversation, people.
665
:I hope people are taking away some,
uh, I hope no big notes and taking
666
:some v- some stuff away from this.
667
:But I know that you, you have a
program and, you know, launching
668
:a program and, and that there are
particular kinds of people that you're
669
:looking for to help at the moment.
670
:Who, who are the people
that you're helping?
671
:And if they want to work with you, how,
how would they go about getting in touch?
672
:Ryan Botner: You know, I'm very, I'm
very selective in the fact that coaching
673
:is 20 or 30% me, 70 to 80% them.
674
:And I don't ever wanna coach anybody
that doesn't wanna be coached or
675
:it's not a good fit, you know?
676
:And so I feel that some of the best,
people are-- they, they understand
677
:that, A, I'm in it right now.
678
:You know?
679
:Like, I'm, I'm on the
power hours with them.
680
:We do group power hours four days a week.
681
:And so, like, we get on,
we're making the phone calls.
682
:We're, we're-- And, like, I tell people,
I said, "Listen, if you're not getting
683
:told no, we're not doing our job here.
684
:We need some nos to let…"
685
:You know?
686
:And so if, if you have that call
reluctance, if you have, you know, the,
687
:a message that you think, "I can really
get to the world, but I just, I really
688
:just need some sales coaching," because
you're not a speaker, you're not a coach,
689
:you're not a consultant, you're in sales.
690
:That's it.
691
:And, and sales could be like, "Oh,
I don't wanna be in sales," or maybe
692
:they think of the, the dirty car
salesman or something like that.
693
:but at the end of the day, like, you're
just serving, and if you align with
694
:those people, and, and you, and you
discover, the diagnosis of obstacles,
695
:outcomes, timing, budget, and, and
decision-maker, if you lock those in,
696
:people will move forward with you, and,
you'll be able to make conversions.
697
:So people either have a leads problem,
which there's not a leads problem 'cause
698
:there's eight billion people in this
earth, so we have plenty of leads.
699
:But either they think they have a leads
problem 'cause they're not clear on
700
:their message, or they have a conversion
problem because they're not diagnosing
701
:and their offer is not s- specific
enough to the problem, or they have
702
:a service after the sale problem.
703
:And most people can
service after the sale.
704
:They can deliver.
705
:They can do a good talk.
706
:So it's usually a conversion problem, and
that's really where we attack the most.
707
:And so, um, yeah.
708
:No, I'm, I'm-- You know,
I just wanna help people.
709
:I'm growing my coaching business, so
we're at about 35 clients right now.
710
:You and I both come from, you
711
:know, a a very scaled operation, right?
712
:It was scaled.
713
:And so, I'm trying to…
714
:I, I, I-- We're getting
a lot of transformation.
715
:People are getting booked.
716
:They're getting paid.
717
:They're making conversions.
718
:They're, they're leaving
their jobs, right?
719
:They're making money,
which is my biggest burden.
720
:Like, you know?
721
:John: Of course.
722
:Ryan Botner: that's, what's,
that's what it's about, you know?
723
:and not just, here, send a bunch of
emails out and throw it against the wall.
724
:It's like, no, we, we wanna get
in front of the right people
725
:and have engaging conversations.
726
:So, so yeah.
727
:John: Get- getting
728
:Ryan Botner: that is, what I'm about.
729
:John: yeah, getting, getting
730
:people over the line is is one
of the biggest challenges I know.
731
:so if people wanted to get in contact
with you and find out how they could
732
:work with you or how you could help
them specifically with that, what's
733
:the best way for them to do that?
734
:Ryan Botner: Probably
LinkedIn is, is the best.
735
:Ryan Botner, LinkedIn we're
pretty active on LinkedIn.
736
:I believe LinkedIn is
a really good network.
737
:it's
738
:John: I'm meeting, yeah
739
:Ryan Botner: You know, um, I'm not
gonna even name the other ones, but
740
:I I, I really like LinkedIn and,
you know, I have a website as well,
741
:but everything's on LinkedIn, so
we're just Ryan Botner on LinkedIn
742
:John: 100%.
743
:We'll make sure that, that li- those
links are in the show notes for people.
744
:But Ryan, thank you so much for
coming and sharing some insights and
745
:speaking business wisdom with us today.
746
:Really appreciate it
747
:Ryan Botner: Thanks, John.
748
:Appreciate you
749
:John: YouTube tells me that most
of the people who watch this show
750
:are not subscribed to the channel.
751
:If that's you, please do subscribe
to the show if you would like to be
752
:getting more content about becoming
known, booked, and paid as a speaker.
753
:Now, in relation to today's chat with
Ryan, if you've been hiding behind
754
:content instead of picking up the phone,
you now know what Ryan would say about
755
:that, and I would agree with him too.
756
:It's time to take action,
and money follows action
757
:I'll be back next week with
a solo episode, but very soon
758
:I'm gonna be bringing you my
interview with Owen Fitzpatrick.
759
:If you know who Owen is, you'll know
that that's not one you'd want to miss.
760
:We had an amazing chat.
761
:We got…
762
:I got to ask some interesting questions
that I don't even think he'd been
763
:asked before, on, certainly not on
a podcast, and you are gonna love
764
:the content that comes from that.
765
:So make sure you subscribe for
that alone and more to follow.
766
:Lots of great chats coming up still.
767
:But in the meantime, go and do
something worth speaking about.
768
:See you next time
